May 21, 2025

202 - Designing fire safety with firefighters in mind

The player is loading ...

The gap between fire safety engineering and firefighting operations creates a profound challenge that affects building safety worldwide. Even experienced fire safety engineers - myself included - face uncertainty when designing for firefighters without being firefighters themselves. Yet many building codes explicitly require engineers to account for firefighting operations in their designs.

This examination dives into the timeline analysis essential for effective firefighter support, from notification (when firefighters learn about the fire) to arrival at the building to actual intervention. Each phase contains complexities often overlooked: fire alarm systems might be delayed by human verification, architectural complexity can significantly slow down firefighters reaching the fire, and building conditions upon arrival dramatically affect intervention capabilities.

The assessment of design fires represents one of the most challenging aspects of this engineering work. At what fire size will firefighters begin their intervention? The fire might be growing, steady-state, limited by compartmentation, or controlled by active systems. This crucial but uncertain consideration fundamentally shapes how we design for firefighter safety.

Through computational fluid dynamics modelling, we can evaluate the building conditions firefighters will face. Rather than using simple pass/fail criteria, experienced engineers look for smoke layer behaviour and clear access paths. The gold standard is providing smoke-free routes from the building entry to the fire vicinity. When this isn't possible, we must carefully evaluate the conditions through which firefighters must navigate.

Fire safety systems - from sprinklers to smoke control, information displays to architectural layouts - all dramatically influence firefighter effectiveness. Yet perhaps the most important principle is creating systems firefighters trust. Overly complex designs may be disabled by firefighters who don't understand them or don't trust them with their lives.

The most effective approach combines rigorous engineering analysis with direct input from firefighters themselves. By understanding their actual needs, which might surprise you - we can design buildings that truly support those willing to risk everything to save others. What would your building design look like if you asked firefighters what they really need?

Listen to the entire episode with Szymon Kokot here: https://www.firescienceshow.com/051-fire-science-in-eyes-of-a-firefighter-with-szymon-kokot/

Want to know what happens in the building after a fire alarm? Find out here: https://www.firescienceshow.com/136-fire-fundamentals-pt-6-the-fire-automation-in-a-building/

----
The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.

00:00 - Introduction to Firefighters in Engineering

04:21 - Moral Dilemma: Engineering Without Firefighting Experience

07:19 - Timeline Analysis: Firefighter Arrival and Notification

15:25 - Arrival to Action: What Happens On Scene

20:54 - Assessing Fire Size When Firefighters Intervene

32:46 - Evaluating Building Conditions for Firefighting

40:30 - Fire Safety Systems That Support Firefighters

47:53 - Communication and Architectural Complexity

50:30 - Conclusions and Final Thoughts

WEBVTT

00:00:00.740 --> 00:00:03.891
Hello everybody, welcome to Fire Science Show episode 202.

00:00:03.891 --> 00:00:09.486
This time there is no science fiction in the episode, but it's not going to be a hardcore fire science either.

00:00:09.486 --> 00:00:21.611
Well, it is fire science, but from the research perspective I'm going to share some fire safety engineering, my own fire safety engineering today, and I must say it's quite a challenging part of fire safety engineering.

00:00:21.611 --> 00:00:31.783
I've picked a topic that perhaps is a little bit difficult, but I guess it needs to be talked among fire safety engineers as it's a big part of our everyday practice.

00:00:31.783 --> 00:00:42.762
So today we're going to talk about firefighters and fire safety engineering, and I do not mean teaching fire safety engineering to firefighters, I mean firefighters as the part of fire safety engineering.

00:00:43.265 --> 00:01:00.444
For some of you the concept may be odd, but in my law system and I know in many European law systems there are specific clauses of your building code, of your technical codes, that refer to firefighters and providing them with some stuff safeguarding firefighters.

00:01:00.444 --> 00:01:05.516
In my Polish system I have to account their ability to firefight in my design of smoke.

00:01:05.516 --> 00:01:07.534
I have to account their ability to firefight in my design of smoke control systems, for example.

00:01:08.015 --> 00:01:18.400
So there's a direct clause of the law that pretty much tells me you need to account for firefighting in your fire safety engineering and how the heck I do that?

00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:19.602
That's a big question.

00:01:19.602 --> 00:01:32.411
Of course I'm not a firefighter, so I have to figure out something and I'm never sure that it's the best thing, but I'm trying my best and this episode is about destroying your best.

00:01:32.411 --> 00:01:40.194
I'm not going to give you answers of what firefighters want, because if you want to learn that, you can really ask them.

00:01:40.194 --> 00:01:45.180
I think for most of the problems, communication is the answer them.

00:01:45.180 --> 00:01:46.483
I think for most of the problems, communication is the answer.

00:01:46.483 --> 00:02:00.061
However, if you're burdened with having this consideration in your fire safety engineering analysis of some sort, I'll at least share with you some ideas of how I, in my own personal fire safety engineering, account for that.

00:02:00.061 --> 00:02:09.259
And we're going to go through different aspects, one being how soon they will be on the site, so all the timeline aspects of firefighting operations.

00:02:09.259 --> 00:02:11.908
We'll touch a little bit on design fire concepts.

00:02:11.908 --> 00:02:18.514
I think it's highly relevant and highly critical to understand the conditions in which the firefighters will operate.

00:02:18.514 --> 00:02:22.807
We will talk a bit about the conditions in the building and assessment.

00:02:22.807 --> 00:02:33.623
So this whole assessment for me is a part of my CFD calculations or computer modeling of fires in buildings, so I have to account for that in my modeling.

00:02:33.623 --> 00:02:48.286
Therefore, we will talk about how to do that in computer modeling and in the end, I will share some opinions about some tools of fire safety engineering not software, but more like devices, sprinklers, smoke control, etc.

00:02:48.286 --> 00:02:54.409
And how they influence fire safety operations in the building fire and rescue operations in the building.

00:02:54.409 --> 00:03:00.050
I hope this will be an interesting one for you, so let's spin the intro and jump into the episode.

00:03:04.580 --> 00:03:06.221
Welcome to the Firesize Show.

00:03:06.221 --> 00:03:09.663
My name is Wojciech Wigrzyński and I will be your host.

00:03:09.663 --> 00:03:39.099
The FireSense Show is into its third year of continued support from its sponsor, OFAR Consultants, who are an independent, multi-award-winning fire engineering consultancy with a reputation for delivering innovative safety-driven solutions.

00:03:39.099 --> 00:03:42.931
As the UK-leading independent fire risk consultancy, OFAR's globally established team have developed a reputation for pre-em independent fire risk consultancy.

00:03:42.931 --> 00:03:52.927
Ofr's globally established team have developed a reputation for preeminent fire engineering expertise, with colleagues working across the world to help protect people, property and the plant.

00:03:52.927 --> 00:04:09.014
Established in the UK in 2016 as a startup business by two highly experienced fire engineering consultants, the business continues to grow at a phenomenal rate, with offices across the country in eight locations, from Edinburgh to Bath, and plans for future expansions.

00:04:09.014 --> 00:04:17.233
If you're keen to find out more or join OFR Consultants during this exciting period of growth, visit their website at ofrconsultantscom.

00:04:18.541 --> 00:04:19.687
And now back to the episode.

00:04:19.687 --> 00:04:21.300
Okay, let's go.

00:04:21.300 --> 00:04:23.480
This episode is really making me uncomfortable.

00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:23.940
Okay, let's go.

00:04:23.940 --> 00:04:30.442
This episode is really making me uncomfortable and I have quite a big moral dilemma whether I should talk about this or I should not talk about this subject.

00:04:30.442 --> 00:04:38.005
You know, accounting for firefighters in my engineering is not something I would like to do because I'm not a firefighter.

00:04:38.005 --> 00:04:38.545
I'm not.

00:04:38.545 --> 00:04:49.069
I'm simply not a firefighter and it's very hard for me to grasp what exactly a firefighter would like to have in a fire.

00:04:49.069 --> 00:04:59.673
I've quenched some fires I would not say I've battled fires but I have some experience on putting water into fires, even large fires.

00:04:59.673 --> 00:05:05.194
I have experience in trying to control fire with firefighting operations.

00:05:05.194 --> 00:05:10.096
I have experience with ventilation, vast experience with ventilation.

00:05:10.096 --> 00:05:13.637
I understand the smoke flow and et cetera.

00:05:13.637 --> 00:05:32.603
I understand compartment fire dynamics, but I'm not a firefighter and I thought maybe I should not talk about this because it just feels wrong.

00:05:32.603 --> 00:05:36.567
But then again, my everyday engineering, the building code, does not clarify I'm a firefighter the technical guidances that tell me to account for firefighting.

00:05:36.608 --> 00:05:41.795
they don't distinguish whether you're a fire safety engineer who by chance is a volunteer firefighter or who, by chance has professional firefighting experience.

00:05:41.795 --> 00:05:42.596
The system doesn't identify that.

00:05:42.615 --> 00:05:52.685
You are just supposed to account that volunteer firefighter or who by chance has professional firefighting experience the system doesn't identify that you are just supposed to account that someone put a clause in the law, and perhaps for better.

00:05:52.685 --> 00:06:07.776
They put the clause in the law because it makes us reflect on what we're doing and it just forces us for this thing, this aspect, this inclusion of firefighting to be a part of firefight safety engineering.

00:06:07.776 --> 00:06:15.372
Perhaps it's better, perhaps that's a good thing, perhaps if we were not forced to that, we would be too uncomfortable to do it on our own.

00:06:15.372 --> 00:06:17.968
So maybe this for the better.

00:06:17.968 --> 00:06:23.608
Therefore, I think it's fair to discuss, as I'm doing this anyway.

00:06:23.608 --> 00:06:32.187
We can as well discuss on how I believe to do it the best I can, and that's the spirit of this episode.

00:06:32.187 --> 00:06:36.000
So in this episode, I'm going to have to put a disclaimer.

00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:39.649
This is not an outcome of any research project.

00:06:39.649 --> 00:06:43.646
This is not something I would call an unbiased fire science.

00:06:43.646 --> 00:06:48.966
This is very biased fire safety engineers opinion about their craft.

00:06:48.966 --> 00:07:08.134
This is me, wojciech, a fire safety engineer, talking with you, fellow fire safety engineers and fire scientists, on how I do my engineering, and there is a good chance someone can do it better, someone can do it in a different way, someone can achieve their goals in a different pathway than mine.

00:07:08.134 --> 00:07:09.738
Uh, that's pretty fine.

00:07:09.738 --> 00:07:11.843
That's that's really good and I would love to share.

00:07:11.843 --> 00:07:12.786
I would love to learn from you.

00:07:13.146 --> 00:07:21.309
Anyway, let's let's move on and discuss on how to include, for, uh, firefighting operations in the building.

00:07:21.309 --> 00:07:23.612
First, what does it even mean?

00:07:23.612 --> 00:07:29.125
Like what does it even mean that I account for firefighting in my building?

00:07:29.125 --> 00:07:38.187
Do I make provisions that allow firefighters for firefighting and, if so, what kind of provisions would that be?

00:07:38.187 --> 00:07:43.303
Do I control the fire in some way until the firefighters arrive?

00:07:43.303 --> 00:07:50.887
Am I supposed to protect the building in some specific way that allows for firefighting?

00:07:50.887 --> 00:07:57.607
I think it can go pretty deep and I think we're going to touch most of those layers in the podcast episode.

00:07:57.607 --> 00:08:00.252
But let's start with the rival.

00:08:00.252 --> 00:08:03.922
Let's start with firefighters getting to your building.

00:08:04.403 --> 00:08:11.387
And I must say in Poland I'm not personally doing that in my engineering, but I saw many consulting companies would do that.

00:08:11.387 --> 00:08:21.555
They would try and estimate the time to arrival, the time to arrival of firefighters into their buildings and put a number in their report.

00:08:21.555 --> 00:08:29.766
It takes 14 minutes for firefighters to come from the nearest fire station to this building and they put this as a number.

00:08:29.766 --> 00:08:38.398
You know, that defines the timeline, defines at what point the firefighters will be able to fight fire in that building as always.

00:08:38.398 --> 00:08:41.784
I'm comfortable with that, and there are multiple reasons.

00:08:41.784 --> 00:08:50.340
One is that fire station location is I mean it's pretty stable, but at the same time it's temporary.

00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:53.750
We design buildings to last for 50, 100 years.

00:08:53.750 --> 00:09:01.369
You cannot assure that a fire station that is there at some specific point where you design the building will be there for the next 100 years.

00:09:01.369 --> 00:09:14.000
There's no kind of social contract you can sign to make sure that the conditions at the day of design will be unchanged for the entirety of the life of the building.

00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.368
So that's one uncertainty that I'm very uncomfortable with.

00:09:17.368 --> 00:09:31.749
Another thing is the time itself, how long it takes the firefighters to come, and I would distinguish like three specific periods of time that I think should be considered in this part.

00:09:31.749 --> 00:09:39.870
One is how long it takes to successfully notify the fire brigade that there is a fire in the building.

00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:42.942
The second one is how long it takes them to arrive to your building.

00:09:42.942 --> 00:09:53.615
And the third one is how long it takes from their arrival to a point in time in which they efficiently can apply water.

00:09:53.615 --> 00:10:02.591
So first, how long it takes them to be notified, this largely depends on the types of systems you have in your building.

00:10:03.260 --> 00:10:20.131
I'm mostly dealing with larger buildings in the ITB in the work that we're doing, so I'm used to working with buildings that are already very well equipped with different fire safety systems, and having a fire alarm system is kind of prerequisite for us to be on the building.

00:10:20.131 --> 00:10:33.453
Even so, we pretty much never work with buildings which would not have fire alarm systems and therefore I can to some extent rely on the fact that a fire alarm will be triggered by the fire.

00:10:33.453 --> 00:10:40.013
Therefore, at the early stages of fire, I can assume that the fire will be detected in the building.

00:10:40.013 --> 00:10:43.811
Now what's going to happen after a fire is detected in the building?

00:10:43.811 --> 00:10:45.705
I have a whole episode about what happens in the building after a fire is detected in the building.

00:10:45.705 --> 00:10:49.174
I have a whole episode about what happens in the building after a fire is detected.

00:10:49.174 --> 00:10:54.428
You can listen to that if you want to understand more about fire automation and all the sequence of things that happens.

00:10:54.970 --> 00:11:01.821
But once the fire is detected in building, multiple things can happen due to the action of the people inside the building.

00:11:01.821 --> 00:11:17.649
So even if you have a system that will automatically transmit the alarm to the fire brigade, it will only do so if the fire is confirmed and the fire can be confirmed by manual operation of the people at the building.

00:11:17.649 --> 00:11:31.929
It can be automatically confirmed if you, for example, have a second detector going into alarm and you have a program that tells you, okay, if two detectors come, this means it's a confirmed fire.

00:11:31.929 --> 00:11:40.413
It can also be confirmed if sufficient time passes from the first detection to, let's say we call it times T1, t2.

00:11:40.413 --> 00:11:44.542
They refer to the operations of the crew at the building.

00:11:44.542 --> 00:11:51.966
So there's a specific amount of time that the team at the building has to confirm or decline a fire.

00:11:51.966 --> 00:11:57.809
And if they do not take any action and this time simply passes, then the fire is also considered confirmed.

00:11:57.809 --> 00:12:02.753
If someone pulls a manual alarm after automated alarm is also confirmed.

00:12:02.753 --> 00:12:04.854
So multiple ways you can confirm an alarm.

00:12:05.094 --> 00:12:07.755
But there's so multiple ways you can confirm an alarm.

00:12:07.755 --> 00:12:09.557
But there's also multiple ways you can delay this.

00:12:09.557 --> 00:12:11.498
The people who are working at the building.

00:12:11.498 --> 00:12:19.582
They can cancel the fire alarm.

00:12:19.582 --> 00:12:20.989
They are able to ignore it for some period of time At some point.

00:12:20.989 --> 00:12:23.399
It's probably impossible to ignore it if it's a large fire and it triggers multiple sensors.

00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:25.082
But if it's a small fire and it's in see.

00:12:25.082 --> 00:12:26.144
But if it's a small fire and it's in sepian stage.

00:12:26.144 --> 00:12:30.760
It's possible to delay that by manual operations of the people inside the building.

00:12:31.101 --> 00:12:49.953
Now, if the building is unmanned in terms of fire alarm central, then it's going to be automated and I assume at least in our system, most of the buildings would be fit with transmission devices which would send a signal to the fire brigade and inform them that there is a fire in this building.

00:12:49.953 --> 00:12:57.688
Sometimes it would even inform them in what relevant part of the building the fire is, if such a distinction is put in place.

00:12:57.688 --> 00:13:03.032
If there is a crew in the building, I assume the automated information also passes through.

00:13:03.032 --> 00:13:09.789
But there will also be a human contact with the Far Brigade, telling them what's happening and probably guiding them.

00:13:09.789 --> 00:13:12.905
Now, this timeline to notification.

00:13:12.905 --> 00:13:19.168
It sounds like immediate, but it can really be a long time which we have to address.

00:13:19.168 --> 00:13:21.327
So we cannot ignore it.

00:13:21.327 --> 00:13:24.557
It's not like 60 seconds in the fire.

00:13:24.557 --> 00:13:42.457
The fire brigade already knows it may take quite a long time for them to be notified about the fire, and the better the fire automation systems in the building, the better the fire alarm system in the building and the higher trained the people staffed in the building, the shorter this time will be.

00:13:42.457 --> 00:13:47.847
The second one is time to arrival, and here I don't really have that much to comment.

00:13:47.847 --> 00:14:01.315
I know that the firefighters operate very quickly, so as soon as they will be notified, you can expect the team to be dispatched in literally minutes and they will come to your building as soon as possible.

00:14:01.315 --> 00:14:08.426
Some people try to establish that with a simple Google map directions from the fire station to the building.

00:14:08.426 --> 00:14:09.356
How long it takes?

00:14:09.356 --> 00:14:23.878
It is an approximation, I guess, and perhaps not even the worst one, so you can pretty much say how much time can pass from the firefighters leaving the fire station and arriving to your building.

00:14:23.878 --> 00:14:28.336
And the third thing is what's going to happen when they arrive to your building.

00:14:28.336 --> 00:14:29.900
I think this is very, very interesting.

00:14:30.282 --> 00:14:33.881
So here I would like to jump into an episode of podcast that I've recorded.

00:14:33.881 --> 00:14:47.923
Three years ago it was episode 51 with a good friend, szymon Kokot, and Szymon is one of the most well-known FAR instructors in the world, I guess Definitely the most known in Poland.

00:14:47.923 --> 00:15:01.360
A good friend of mine and I had this podcast episode with Shimon about looking on fire science through the eyes of a firefighter, so really doing something like in today's episode, but talking to an actual firefighter.

00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:06.615
And I've asked him Shimon, what happens when a fire brigade arrives on the scene?

00:15:06.615 --> 00:15:09.004
What are the things that you consider?

00:15:09.004 --> 00:15:17.464
So I would just like to play a short response of Shimon to that question, because he's a firefighter, he knows what he's saying.

00:15:17.464 --> 00:15:25.086
So I want you to hear the commentary from Shimon, and then I'll probably enhance this with some thoughts of my own.

00:15:25.086 --> 00:15:26.961
So let's play the sample.

00:15:26.961 --> 00:15:28.520
Let's go to the car park.

00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:34.504
Let's tell the fire engineers what the firefighter does when they get a call that the car park is on fire and it's underground.

00:15:34.504 --> 00:15:35.485
We already agreed that.

00:15:35.485 --> 00:15:37.441
Okay, multi-level underground car park.

00:15:37.936 --> 00:15:42.601
So, based on experience, there is a PDA predetermined attendance.

00:15:42.601 --> 00:15:44.542
That's probably a very British term.

00:15:45.014 --> 00:15:54.432
Like a minimum of vehicles and personnel that absolutely has to be dispatched to this kind of event as a minimum.

00:15:54.432 --> 00:16:03.489
First, let's say serving, and then, when the commander is on scene, he or she will decide if it's enough or will they need more.

00:16:03.489 --> 00:16:07.645
Now this decision is based on multiple factors.

00:16:07.645 --> 00:16:11.115
They need more Now.

00:16:11.115 --> 00:16:12.039
This decision is based on multiple factors.

00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:16.095
If this is a building that was in the area for some time, there is an increased chance that they know the layout of the building.

00:16:16.095 --> 00:16:21.707
If it's a new one, maybe there was just one visit or maybe there was no exercise yet.

00:16:21.707 --> 00:16:40.482
We have operational planning that envisages going to all major or complex buildings you know frequently, or at least try to put them on the list and check them one after another, because it's a maze, the problem like whatever.

00:16:40.482 --> 00:16:44.759
When I sometimes teach the firefighters in the factory, I tell them the difference.

00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:46.504
You know what is your advantage.

00:16:46.504 --> 00:16:48.899
You know the buildings, you know exactly the building.

00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:49.366
So next, you know what is your advantage.

00:16:49.366 --> 00:16:49.549
You know the buildings.

00:16:49.549 --> 00:16:49.744
You know exactly the buildings.

00:16:49.744 --> 00:16:55.460
So next time you just are walking around, you know eating your donut, chatting with your friend, just have a look around.

00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:57.221
This is your great advantage.

00:16:57.956 --> 00:17:01.643
When we are attending a fire, we basically don't know where we are going.

00:17:01.643 --> 00:17:02.465
That's one thing.

00:17:02.465 --> 00:17:07.175
The second thing we take into consideration what is the time of the day?

00:17:07.175 --> 00:17:08.997
The second thing we take into consideration what is the time of the day?

00:17:08.997 --> 00:17:12.097
If it's evening till morning, the car park is mostly full.

00:17:12.097 --> 00:17:15.059
If it's the other part of the day, it's mostly empty.

00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:26.885
So fire load, fire load, but also the ability or the easiness to travel around it without being disoriented, because obviously you have to throw in limited visibility.

00:17:26.885 --> 00:17:29.307
If it's limited visibility, it's smoke.

00:17:29.307 --> 00:17:31.528
If it's smoke, it means breathing protection.

00:17:31.528 --> 00:17:33.890
Breathing protection has limited time.

00:17:33.890 --> 00:17:48.442
So, depending on also depending on another, let's say, science, which is ergonomics, you have to be able to assess it's not entirely the case of the fire commander, because every firefighter has to know this for themselves how much air they are using.

00:17:48.442 --> 00:18:03.355
Is it 50, 60, 70, 80 liters per minute, based on different types of work moderate work, heavy work or so on, or, more practically, they have to just read the gauge of their BA pressure frequently enough and be able to communicate, if we want to communicate.

00:18:03.535 --> 00:18:11.538
There's a problem with concrete floors which blocks the signal, so there's a number of difficulties.

00:18:11.538 --> 00:18:27.383
What is the average ability of a firefighter to combat fire, be it cool smoke, be it attack the seat of the fire, and if I'm having today an average firefighter, a very good firefighter or a poor firefighter?

00:18:27.383 --> 00:18:29.867
It's a great set of variables.

00:18:30.394 --> 00:18:33.222
So there's many levels of constraints.

00:18:33.222 --> 00:18:51.400
You have to take into account the time you can send people for a certain amount of time until their breathing apparatus stops working, and probably you need to secure the logistics how to exchange them, pull them out early enough so that they don't work.

00:18:51.961 --> 00:19:04.838
yeah, they don't work on the reserve, because it's basically being in the danger zone, working on reserve, but also being able to send in someone in exchange so that we have a continuous firefighting operation.

00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:09.426
Then you mentioned communication, which also can be blocked by the building itself.

00:19:09.426 --> 00:19:09.788
It can.

00:19:11.575 --> 00:19:15.163
Then visibility Do I have thermal imaging cameras?

00:19:15.163 --> 00:19:23.421
Now, that's a piece of scientific equipment, you know, like reading thermal radiation from emitting objects, which, by the way, is also.

00:19:23.421 --> 00:19:24.459
They need to understand.

00:19:24.459 --> 00:19:27.511
This is not a thermometer, this is an assessment.

00:19:27.511 --> 00:19:29.557
If it's heavy smoke, there's a lot of soot.

00:19:29.917 --> 00:19:36.680
You will not be able to see through it okay, I'm back and, uh, it was fun to revisit episode 51 with shimon.

00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:42.603
I recommend you listening to that one because it's a firefighter speaking about firefighting, so he's much more fit than me to talk about it.

00:19:42.603 --> 00:19:55.474
Anyway, the things that shimon mentioned were not first things that came to my mind when I imagined what a fire brigade may do at the site, and there indeed is a ton of considerations to be done at the site.

00:19:55.474 --> 00:20:09.016
What I wanted to achieve with this walk down memory lane and bringing back Shimon into the podcast episode is to highlight that the fact that firefighters arrived in your building does not mean the fire has stopped.

00:20:09.016 --> 00:20:14.107
It does not mean that the water is on the fire and immediately the action is being taken.

00:20:14.107 --> 00:20:23.583
And, depending on how complicated your building is, how large your building is, it can take considerable amount of time to reach the location of the fire.

00:20:23.583 --> 00:20:26.076
That's the problem with Mastimber, for example.

00:20:26.076 --> 00:20:29.517
We highly rely on firefighters' intervention in Mastimber.

00:20:29.517 --> 00:20:33.519
They literally have to be there because the structure is participating in the fire.

00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:42.580
Therefore, it must be actively battled, and if they have to climb 30 flights of stairs, it's going to be difficult.

00:20:42.580 --> 00:20:48.682
At the point when they reach the fire they will be already exhausted and that their job has not even started yet.

00:20:48.682 --> 00:20:51.483
Therefore, there's a lot to be accounted for.

00:20:51.483 --> 00:20:58.748
Firefighters appearing in your sight does not mean that they have started fighting fire.

00:20:58.748 --> 00:21:15.355
Perhaps I'll invite someone from FSRI to discuss this in a much deeper state, because FSRI is working a lot with firefighters and they have prepared those great considerations for firefighting, so maybe we will be able to narrow down the timeline a little bit better.

00:21:15.355 --> 00:21:33.544
For me, the important thing is that it just can take a lot of time, and the bigger, the more complicated building I am designing, the more time it's going to take and more reliant on my fire engineering those firefighters will be to reach the point where they can fight fire.

00:21:34.085 --> 00:21:40.185
Okay, the other thing is, the fire brigade was notified, they were dispatched, they've arrived to the scene.

00:21:40.185 --> 00:21:42.298
At the same time the fire was growing.

00:21:42.298 --> 00:21:45.346
Kind of right, we have a fire developing in our building.

00:21:45.346 --> 00:21:57.640
So now, if I try to do any sort of engineering assessment, what would be the conditions when the firefighters arrive or when the firefighters start their firefighting operations?

00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.326
This is what my clause of the building code tells me to do.

00:22:00.326 --> 00:22:01.498
I have to account for that.

00:22:01.498 --> 00:22:09.977
So I have to in some way assess in what conditions, they will be able to start their firefighting operations in the building right.

00:22:09.977 --> 00:22:15.195
So if I want to do that, I need to understand how big the fire is at that point.

00:22:15.195 --> 00:22:20.425
And it's quite intriguing because many people do not realize that.

00:22:20.445 --> 00:22:35.740
But in some design fires you already have that as an integral part of your design fire, for example, the TNO fire for vehicles, one that I've praised a lot of times in this podcast and I like it a lot.

00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:47.363
But it kind of assumes that around 20th minute you will have an intervention and this is the reason why the fire stops growing, because there's a firefighting intervention.

00:22:47.363 --> 00:22:51.424
And indeed those firefighting interventions can be very, very efficient.

00:22:51.424 --> 00:23:02.968
In car parks, bre experiments, for example if you go back to them you will see that experiment, one the one with three vehicles, very huge growth fire, very large fire in a very small space.

00:23:02.968 --> 00:23:09.228
But as soon as they applied water it really dropped the heat release rate and they controlled it very quickly.

00:23:09.228 --> 00:23:12.325
So we also know that those interventions can be very efficient.

00:23:12.734 --> 00:23:18.428
But okay, what state the fire will be when those firefighters can start their work?

00:23:18.428 --> 00:23:20.881
And now it's pretty uncertain.

00:23:20.881 --> 00:23:24.761
Of course, like everything in fire safety engineering, fires are growing.

00:23:24.761 --> 00:23:28.925
We mostly consider growing fires, some kind of alpha-thisquad fires.

00:23:28.925 --> 00:23:36.308
That's a relationship that fairly well captures the growth of fires in most types of buildings that we deal with.

00:23:36.875 --> 00:23:38.623
But fires can also be limited.

00:23:38.623 --> 00:23:52.067
Fires can reach some sort of steady state or quasi-steady state, and if they reach a steady state the job becomes easy because you just assess what the steady state fire science is, then look for the conditions in that steady state.

00:23:52.067 --> 00:23:55.304
The steady state can be reached through different ways.

00:23:55.304 --> 00:23:55.805
To be honest.

00:23:55.805 --> 00:24:06.290
One is when you have a fire confined to a small compartment, your fire size will be highly related to the openings and ventilation in the compartment.

00:24:06.290 --> 00:24:09.105
So it's classical compartment fire dynamics.

00:24:09.105 --> 00:24:17.621
You can tell the maximum size of a fire in a compartment knowing what kind of openings the compartment has, and you cannot skip physics.

00:24:17.621 --> 00:24:18.941
It's not going to be larger than that.

00:24:18.941 --> 00:24:20.855
It could be larger, but outside.

00:24:20.855 --> 00:24:35.237
So perhaps if your compartment is lined with timber or you have some just ridiculous amount of fuel inside your compartment, the fuel will burn out outside of that compartment when it gets oxygen in the exterior conditions.

00:24:35.237 --> 00:24:39.919
That's a different thing, in some cases highly important, in some cases not that relevant.

00:24:39.919 --> 00:24:45.497
But in terms of the compartment itself, the size of the fire, there is a maximum limit to that.

00:24:45.497 --> 00:24:47.222
That comes from physics.

00:24:47.222 --> 00:24:47.584
That's it.

00:24:47.584 --> 00:24:50.673
It can also be limited by availability of the fuel.

00:24:50.673 --> 00:25:07.907
So every compartment fire until there's a flashover is basically a collection of single items burning or groups of items that are burning, and if you have a vehicle parked in the middle of a car park and there is no other vehicle around it, the fire cannot spread.

00:25:07.907 --> 00:25:08.429
That's it.

00:25:08.429 --> 00:25:14.084
If there's no fuel package to which the fire can jump, then the fire is not able to spread.

00:25:14.304 --> 00:25:30.778
Now, this is pretty tricky to design for, because you have to understand the exact location of the fuel in your building and the type of fuel if you're building, and the conditions at which the fuel may ignite or may not ignite, and you probably also need some sort of control over that.

00:25:30.778 --> 00:25:32.603
This exact fuel will be in the building.

00:25:32.603 --> 00:25:36.034
So if you are designing a car park, you really hope there is not going to be a garage sale or something in the building.

00:25:36.034 --> 00:25:42.678
So if you are designing a car park, you really hope there is not going to be a garage sale or something in the car park, because that's a completely different hazard than the one you designed for.

00:25:42.678 --> 00:25:52.257
Vincent Brennan once told me that if there is a space you have to consider a wedding being placed there and people would put weddings into most ridiculous spaces.

00:25:52.257 --> 00:25:54.220
So I can actually imagine a wedding in a car park.

00:25:54.220 --> 00:25:56.644
So that's a hazard I usually do not design for.

00:25:56.905 --> 00:26:02.355
But in your classical case the fire can spread through, of course, direct flame contact.

00:26:02.355 --> 00:26:08.859
That's probably the easiest, and if it happens it will most likely spread to any type of combustible material.

00:26:08.859 --> 00:26:10.465
It can spread to radiation.

00:26:10.465 --> 00:26:23.519
That one is a little bit more challenging because you really need a lot of radiation to ignite things, and the radiation from a flame to its surroundings, if it's fairly small flame, is actually not that intense to ignite at high distances.

00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.457
Of course, if you have like 10 megawatt fire it can ignite a lot of stuff around.

00:26:27.457 --> 00:26:34.500
But if it's a few hundred kilowatts, one megawatt really, the distance at which you're unable to ignite is pretty small.

00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:39.288
But you may also have radiation from the smoke layer and that changes the dynamic a lot.

00:26:39.288 --> 00:26:42.384
So yeah, it's something you can account for.

00:26:42.384 --> 00:26:56.151
It can also ignite through convective heating, some sort of firebrands or flamelets that are flying parts of your burning item that are falling apart from that item and flying through your building.

00:26:56.151 --> 00:26:57.921
They can also ignite very easily.

00:26:57.921 --> 00:27:08.577
A classic new example is lithium ion batteries, where you start having your individual cells flying around your building and igniting stuff at different locations.

00:27:08.577 --> 00:27:12.047
This is a pretty crazy fire scenario but yeah, it can happen like that.

00:27:12.555 --> 00:27:32.566
But anyway, if you assume that the fire cannot spread and you put a limiting size of your fire because of that, you have to be really confident in the design and you probably have to have some sort of way to execute that, to really enforce the fact that the fuel packages in your building will be exactly what you've just described in your fire safety engineering or your fire strategy.

00:27:32.566 --> 00:27:41.896
In some cases, when you have large spaces, open spaces, the fire will turn into a traveling fire, and that's something we've discussed with Professor Guillermo Reyn in the podcast.

00:27:41.896 --> 00:27:50.846
In a traveling fire, basically, the concept is the fire is continuously spreading, but it's not so fast that it takes the entire compartment within a minute or two.

00:27:50.846 --> 00:27:57.488
Therefore, some of the fuel burns out and eventually you have one front of fire spread.

00:27:57.488 --> 00:28:10.606
That fire spreads to the nearby objects and moves through your building and the second front of decaying fire, where it's just burning away the fuel package that it just consumed.

00:28:10.606 --> 00:28:16.826
Therefore, it cannot burn anymore and overall it looks like the fire is traveling through a building.

00:28:17.295 --> 00:28:31.827
I remember when we were doing first Obora X1 experiment and it was supposed to confirm or disprove the hypothesis that traveling fires exist and that the fires can travel through the fuel package.

00:28:31.827 --> 00:28:37.000
And I remember I was burdened with securing the perimeter with a good friend, francesco Restuccia.

00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:51.011
So we were at one part of the building and we were putting water on the roof structure outside of the building because the fire was venting through open windows outside and we had the roof structures that we really did not want to lose.

00:28:51.011 --> 00:28:57.508
Therefore we were applying water and we had this fire know, fire spread front, move in front of us.

00:28:57.508 --> 00:29:15.464
So our perimeter was burning and, uh, quite some minutes later we see, you know, this fire decaying and, kind of, you know, going down, moving away from us, and we're like, oh, thank god that fires travel, because I'm not sure how long more we could handle this perimeter.

00:29:15.464 --> 00:29:17.188
So it was good that fires traveled.

00:29:18.476 --> 00:29:21.766
You may also have the fire size limited by firefighting operations.

00:29:21.766 --> 00:29:28.857
So if firefighters arrive off the scene, they start applying water to your building, to your compartment, the fire size.

00:29:28.857 --> 00:29:30.202
You can consider that.

00:29:30.202 --> 00:29:35.804
That's the point at which the outcome is very uncertain and highly reliant on the firefighting capabilities.

00:29:35.804 --> 00:29:40.547
So therefore I don't see any point to grow the fire anymore beyond that point.

00:29:40.547 --> 00:29:43.505
But you really have to have in mind the time at which they will come.

00:29:43.505 --> 00:29:47.605
So you really need to understand at what point of alpha T squared fire.

00:29:47.605 --> 00:29:52.846
The T is the time where the firefighters intervene and my growth stops.

00:29:52.846 --> 00:30:03.397
The growth may also stop because you have some kind of system in your building that simply limits the spread of the fire, like a sprinkler system, like water mist system, like foam system.

00:30:03.498 --> 00:30:09.818
Any fixed firefighting system should, by design, prevent the spread of fire or limit the spread of fire.

00:30:09.818 --> 00:30:17.241
So if you have one of those in your buildings, I think it's a fair assumption to find some kind of steady state fire size and design for that.

00:30:17.241 --> 00:30:24.359
And I would put forward that you could potentially slow or stop the spread with smoke control.

00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:31.106
Not always, in some circumstances you could and it probably would be very difficult, but many people say you could not.

00:30:31.106 --> 00:30:45.010
But I would put forward that you potentially could significantly influence the spread of fire in your building through smoke control, especially if you're able to remove the heat from your ceiling and you prevent the smoke layer to radiate on the fuel packages.

00:30:45.010 --> 00:30:51.682
I think it's a considerable action of smoke control and could be accounted for, but again, highly uncertain.

00:30:51.682 --> 00:30:57.738
So, as you see, the design of fire is quite a problem because it really is an uncertain consideration.

00:30:57.738 --> 00:31:00.066
It really is From my perspective.

00:31:00.105 --> 00:31:13.957
All the fires are growing and for the perspective of assessing the conditions for firefighters, I need to know a number, I need to have a number of the size of the fire at which they have started their intervention, to assess what's happening in the building.

00:31:13.957 --> 00:31:20.625
And it's probably some of the most challenging fire safety engineering decisions that I'm taking in my professional career.

00:31:20.625 --> 00:31:21.976
At what level?

00:31:21.976 --> 00:31:27.607
I stop the size of the fire and I assess and I say this is the fires they will fight.

00:31:27.607 --> 00:31:31.502
Therefore, I'm assessing their ability to enter the building.

00:31:31.502 --> 00:31:38.865
Well, we'll just go in there in a minute, but I just stop at this fire size and I do my fire safety engineering for this Design fires.

00:31:38.865 --> 00:31:44.285
What a funny problem, what an interesting concept and what a huge challenge for fire safety engineering.

00:31:44.285 --> 00:31:54.377
Perhaps there should be a design fire podcast or something where we would discuss how things burn and what kind of design fire they lead to Maybe a spin-off.

00:31:54.377 --> 00:31:55.660
Maybe I'll do that one day, we'll see.

00:31:55.901 --> 00:32:00.796
Anyway, now let's move to a part that I thought that will be the main part of this episode.

00:32:00.796 --> 00:32:21.323
It kind of ended a smaller chunk at the end and this is what can we assess and how to assess if we have a design fire, if we know for what kind of heat release rate we'll be designing the systems and what kind of fire we will expect at the time when the firefighters come into a building, when they come.

00:32:21.323 --> 00:32:24.420
So you've assessed your timelines and you're fairly comfortable with them.

00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:29.397
Now how do we assess what's happening in the building when they come?

00:32:29.397 --> 00:32:34.709
And this is something that exactly is required by the building code in here.

00:32:34.709 --> 00:32:36.441
So I have to do exactly that.

00:32:36.441 --> 00:32:39.462
I have to assess the conditions in which the firefighters will operate.

00:32:39.462 --> 00:32:40.566
How do I do that?

00:32:40.566 --> 00:32:46.563
Of course I do it by fire modeling, and by fire modeling I mean CFD, and for me it's a simple choice.

00:32:46.563 --> 00:32:56.615
I would just use CFD method as my preferred tool of choice, and I think that's not a very controversial statement, that that's how the fire safety engineering is practiced worldwide today.

00:32:57.135 --> 00:33:05.009
And in CFD you have ability to measure or estimate different variables, conditions that define the environment in the building inside.

00:33:05.009 --> 00:33:16.228
The most basic ones, of course, temperature, radiation, visibility these are the most common variables and probably you will end up working mostly with those.

00:33:16.228 --> 00:33:24.885
So when I look at my fine safety engineering analysis on my simulations, what I'm trying to find in them?

00:33:24.885 --> 00:33:27.738
First of all, what is extent?

00:33:27.738 --> 00:33:30.344
So I'll probably change the way of thinking.

00:33:30.344 --> 00:33:32.448
So there's no easy way to do this.

00:33:32.448 --> 00:33:37.538
There is no easy way that says okay, you know, if the temperature is below 120, we're good.

00:33:37.538 --> 00:33:45.261
Or if the visibility is above 10 meters, we're absolutely fine and the conditions are beautiful and they can just work.

00:33:45.261 --> 00:33:47.125
It's not as easy as that.

00:33:47.125 --> 00:33:55.805
It's not binary, it's a spectrum and therefore it's an assessment and in some buildings some conditions may be okay.

00:33:55.805 --> 00:33:58.429
In some buildings the same conditions may be critically wrong.

00:33:58.429 --> 00:34:11.369
A lot depends on what you are designing and how complicated it is going to be to get to that location and how uncertain you are about the design fire, how uncertain you are about the timeline of the intervention itself.

00:34:11.369 --> 00:34:16.143
All those things will matter in the assessment and what you're looking at.

00:34:16.143 --> 00:34:20.701
For me it's never a simple binary exercise 10 meters, check.

00:34:20.701 --> 00:34:23.246
120 degrees check, we're good.

00:34:23.246 --> 00:34:24.449
It's more than that.

00:34:25.054 --> 00:34:31.686
So I'm trying to look first of all on the extent of smoke in the building.

00:34:31.686 --> 00:34:35.219
So how much of the building is filled with smoke?

00:34:35.219 --> 00:34:38.697
One thing that I'm looking into is the layer behavior.

00:34:38.697 --> 00:34:49.146
So is the smoke in a well-defined upper layer in my compartments or does it fill the entire space of the building from the floor to the ceiling?

00:34:49.146 --> 00:34:52.298
Because those are two completely different conditions.

00:34:52.298 --> 00:35:05.563
If you have a layer, in some cases it doesn't really matter what the visibility in the layer is, because if you're on your knees you can see through the building and you have a really good chance to identify where the fire is.

00:35:05.563 --> 00:35:13.286
Of course, if you have a simple open plan compartment, it's much easier than if you have a labyrinth built in.

00:35:13.286 --> 00:35:22.231
The architectural structure of your building also influences how easily one can define where the fire is and effectively fight it.

00:35:22.231 --> 00:35:37.789
But a layer is something that I look for, and if my systems can maintain this stratification of layers and I can maintain some sort of free layer height, that's a good sign that then I'm already very pleased with the outcome.

00:35:38.375 --> 00:35:42.603
If I cannot, then the visibility will start to matter a little bit.

00:35:42.603 --> 00:35:47.143
A little bit, because I don't find it as a definitive criterion.

00:35:47.143 --> 00:35:54.784
There will be more podcasts on visibility based on the current research that we're doing, so I'll probably go there in those podcast episodes.

00:35:54.784 --> 00:36:04.297
But one thing is like imagine you have 11 visibility and you have a smoke filling your entire compartment, which is, let's say, 1000 square meters.

00:36:04.297 --> 00:36:13.559
Even if I had 11 meter visibility, which would be something that's fine with my tenability criteria, still I can't see anything in that building.

00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:25.362
So it's not really helpful that the tonnability criterion was maintained when the smoke filled the entire space, and also the uncertainties related to this assessment.

00:36:25.362 --> 00:36:29.809
You know the suit yields of materials, the combustion efficiencies and so on.

00:36:29.809 --> 00:36:34.746
So I rather like to look at it whether I had smoked somewhere or not.

00:36:34.746 --> 00:36:40.940
That's the information that I'm rather certain about and the parameters of that smoke.

00:36:40.940 --> 00:36:42.144
That's a challenging one.

00:36:42.556 --> 00:36:46.505
So definitely layer behavior visibility in some conditions I would look into that.

00:36:46.505 --> 00:36:52.228
But really what I'm looking is is there a smoke-free access path?

00:36:52.228 --> 00:36:54.543
That's really a thing that I'm looking for.

00:36:54.543 --> 00:36:56.260
Is there a pathway?

00:36:56.260 --> 00:37:06.063
Because if I design a smoke control system, I would like the smoke control system to work in such a way that it creates a smoke-free access to the compartment.

00:37:06.063 --> 00:37:10.699
That kind of connects the point of access with the fire itself.

00:37:10.699 --> 00:37:16.768
And I like to justify it for myself and perhaps, if I'm wrong, my firefighter friends.

00:37:16.768 --> 00:37:38.295
Please correct me, but I assume that if firefighters have ability to enter a large compartment on fire imagine a car park If they have a good point of entrance and I always make the gates of the car park point of entrance I never allow to extract smoke through the gate point of entrance.

00:37:38.315 --> 00:37:39.719
I never allow to extract smoke through the gate.

00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:49.768
I always use the gate as my main air supply location, because then the firefighters will always have a chance to enter the car park through the external gate, which is the most convenient way to access it.

00:37:49.768 --> 00:37:53.521
So first, is my access point free of smoke?

00:37:53.521 --> 00:37:56.248
If it is, it means they can enter the space.

00:37:56.248 --> 00:38:05.606
Now, if there exists a smoke-free path between the entrance point and the seat of the fire.

00:38:05.606 --> 00:38:11.626
It doesn't have to be directly the fire, but let's say 10, 15 meter perimeter around the fire.

00:38:11.626 --> 00:38:26.621
I assume that firefighters can take a look into the building and immediately see where the smoke or flames are and conveniently approach it and start feeding water, because the discharge distance of water is actually quite large.

00:38:26.621 --> 00:38:28.507
So you can fight fire from 10, 15 meters.

00:38:28.507 --> 00:38:33.875
So I assume if they have this smoke free access, they're very good, in a very good position.

00:38:33.875 --> 00:38:46.503
In some cases it's not really feasible or possible to provide that kind of access and in those buildings we look into the conditions of the smoke through which they will have to move to get to the fire.

00:38:46.503 --> 00:38:50.400
And here we go into those visibility ratings, the temperature of the smoke.

00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:55.099
We like to keep it as low as possible and to give them a chance.

00:38:55.099 --> 00:39:04.221
Of course firefighters can take higher temperatures than your normal people because they are wearing full personal protection systems and those suits are very high quality nowadays.

00:39:04.221 --> 00:39:05.443
They can take a lot actually.

00:39:05.443 --> 00:39:11.304
So we know that they can take a little higher temperatures and radiations than general population.

00:39:11.804 --> 00:39:16.000
The question what is the magic number that you should look for is a difficult one.

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.722
Is it 120 degrees.

00:39:17.722 --> 00:39:19.626
Is it 5 kilowatts per square meter?

00:39:19.626 --> 00:39:21.548
Is it 2.5 kilowatts per square meter?

00:39:21.548 --> 00:39:26.318
I don't feel like I'm in a position to tell you what the value is.

00:39:26.338 --> 00:39:28.543
You probably have to discuss this with the firefighters in your location.

00:39:28.543 --> 00:39:34.239
The authority having jurisdiction so we call it in fire safety engineering that's the person you need to talk about this.

00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:52.867
But we have the numbers that we use and we assume that if those conditions are there, they simply can enter, use some sort of thermal imaging to identify the direction at which the fire is and slowly progress towards that fire.

00:39:52.867 --> 00:39:55.331
Of course it's a completely different progression than if you have a smoke-free access.

00:39:55.331 --> 00:39:56.800
It's completely different conditions, but we just assume that it's a completely different progression than if you have a smoke-free access.

00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:59.731
It's completely different conditions, but we just assume that it's still possible.

00:39:59.731 --> 00:40:23.985
And if the conditions in the car park are extreme, like I have a 400 degrees average temperature of smoke or I see the conditions inside the compartment are promoting a flashover in that compartment or fast growth in that compartment, I just assume I cannot provide anything to firefighters and I have to either change my design fire affect what's in the building or I have to change the systems that I have in my building.

00:40:23.985 --> 00:40:24.985
Perhaps that sprinklers?

00:40:24.985 --> 00:40:27.788
That would be the first and most immediate choice.

00:40:28.148 --> 00:40:30.490
Now let's move to the tools of fire safety engineering.

00:40:30.490 --> 00:40:31.891
I've already mentioned sprinklers.

00:40:31.891 --> 00:40:40.043
I think any type of fixed firefighting system in your building is already the best thing you can have in relation to the firefighting operations.

00:40:40.043 --> 00:40:45.360
Simply, it's best to have your water applied to your fire as soon as possible.

00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:52.521
I think this will universally make the life and job of firefighter easier and by far safer.

00:40:52.521 --> 00:40:55.349
So there's nothing that can be fixed.

00:40:55.349 --> 00:40:58.516
Firefighting systems, whatever kind you are using for sure.

00:40:59.177 --> 00:41:01.802
Smoke control yes One.

00:41:01.802 --> 00:41:04.708
It's going to decrease the temperatures of the smoke.

00:41:04.708 --> 00:41:13.202
It just removes the energy from the building, from the compartment system, therefore limiting the radiation, the hazards related from the temperature to the smoke.

00:41:13.202 --> 00:41:16.320
To some extent it reduces the hazards related to toxicity.

00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:33.188
But keep in mind that the firefighters would be operating in breathing apparatus, so these hazards are not as much directly to them as to your normal population, excluding hydrofluoride, which is a nasty stuff and comes from some of the EV fires.

00:41:33.188 --> 00:41:35.335
So let's say that that's a different story.

00:41:35.335 --> 00:41:42.748
But for most fires the breathing apparatus allows them to proceed, even in the clouds of gases of smoke.

00:41:43.815 --> 00:41:47.206
Smoke control is also capable of providing the smoke-free access.

00:41:47.206 --> 00:41:56.344
And I think in here especially the pressurization systems, the systems that you use on your horizontal pathways, like corridors.

00:41:56.344 --> 00:42:00.503
You can do a lot of those and you can do a lot of engineering with those.

00:42:00.503 --> 00:42:10.590
You can really create great conditions to make sure that the compartment that's on fire, that's the only place in the building where the smoke and fire is.

00:42:10.590 --> 00:42:23.143
The smoke doesn't spread through your corridors, staircases and so on, because if firefighters approach a building, the fire is on the 10th floor and there's already half of the building filled with smoke.

00:42:23.143 --> 00:42:25.824
You have to perform rescue operations, save lives.

00:42:25.824 --> 00:42:35.059
It really makes firefighting extremely challenging, orientation in the building extremely challenging, firefighting extremely challenging, orientation in the building extremely challenging.

00:42:35.059 --> 00:42:42.382
It just makes everything slower and less efficient there than it could be and I believe through my engineering I shall make their life as easy as possible.

00:42:43.065 --> 00:42:44.648
Another thing is information.

00:42:44.648 --> 00:43:14.690

202 - Designing fire safety with firefighters in mind

Listen On

Recent Episodes

Support On