We've felt a bit awkward about how FSE handles smoke control in corridors. If you look closely into common practices, they rarely do include impressive engineering - more often you see some 'tips and tricks' that make the CFD simulations work out and systems are accepted. Doors opening/closing in specific timeline points, heat source sizes or soot generation parameters... I agree it does not necessarily mean that all the systems are designed wrongfully, or they do not provide safety... but in fact - how can we tell what they provide if we are not evaluating them in a clear and robust way?
In this episode, I talk to my colleague from the ITB - Dr Grzegorz Krajewski, about a next-generation smoke control experimental facility that has just been built at the ITB. From this talk, you will learn what doubts we have about the modern approach to designing smoke control in corridors, how we want to study it with our new facility and how you can take part in defining a new 'point zero' for the future of the smoke control.
If you like what you hear, and you would like us to conduct a specific experiment in the new facility, please reach us! We will do everything we can to run it.
[00:00:00] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Everybody welcome to the fire science show today. Broadcasting from Brno in Czech Republic.
[00:00:28] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Together with my friends and colleagues.
[00:00:30] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Douglas Kresky. At
[00:00:31] Wojciech Wegrzynski: fam tech conference aggregators.
[00:00:33] Grzegorz Krajewski: Hello, welcome everybody.
[00:00:34] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Great to have you in the show and, uh, We came here. we We're having a local tourne hour around Europe sharing the preliminary research of our new, fascinating project. And we thought that it may be great to share it. With you, what do you think Chickasha?
[00:00:51] Grzegorz Krajewski: I think it's.
[00:00:52] Grzegorz Krajewski: Generally a great idea because it's project starts three years, so he's fine.
[00:00:56] Grzegorz Krajewski: A moment to show it to the
[00:00:57] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I usually have said that it's like, it's [00:01:00] going
[00:01:00] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Like scheduled rides. It's not that we've spent like three years building.
[00:01:03] Wojciech Wegrzynski: it now, actually, actually we did, but we're very happy to. Have completed stage one or something that we call stage one of the project. It was a big, big advancement in, building a new facility for small controlling in corridors.
[00:01:16] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The project name is
[00:01:19] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Jaeger's we're horrible at naming projects.
[00:01:21] Grzegorz Krajewski: But it's an official name. We'd have to find out something new.
[00:01:25] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah.
[00:01:25] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Well, if just someone in the audience has a proposal, how to call the sexy project, please let us know because we certainly fail at doing that. Unfortunately.
[00:01:34] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Anyway, uh, The project is on the smoke control in corridors. And I think it's a really interesting. A topic that's very, very worthy of. Investigation. And. It's something that consists of two separate parts parts. One would be in the new, how we call it next generation experimental facility for. Investigation of smoke controls. And this is something that Jaeger's was leading for the last three [00:02:00] years.
[00:02:00] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And part two is something that was more on my shoulders, which is the digital twin of this facility, which is a fancy name for a numerical Simulator of the exact same experiments we do in the facility.
[00:02:14] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I want to say is an ethics degeneration and experimental facility for investigation of smoke control. Doesn't really give you an impression of what it is. So it's all jokes. Please tell the listeners what we have actually built in punky.
[00:02:25] Grzegorz Krajewski: we built 40 meters long corridor with height of three meters and variable.
[00:02:31] Grzegorz Krajewski: or floor. So it's a very fixable.
[00:02:33] Grzegorz Krajewski: the white of corridor is 1.4 meters and to corridor is.
[00:02:38] Grzegorz Krajewski: equipped with fully flexible ventilation system.
[00:02:41] Grzegorz Krajewski: system, which allows us to test. Probably most of possible ventilation combinations.
[00:02:48] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It's kind of interesting when you think about this. It's just a corridor. But the facility like that has, I have never seen a thing like that in my life. we've always only seen the [00:03:00] research and the corridors. This was done at Hawk at some buildings, and it was just limited, limited, limited studies that just investigated one parameter, two perimeters, or just few parameters.
[00:03:09] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Uh, and here we've built a facility that Is bespoke engineered to really facilitate multiple variants of fire. Uh, research in it. And, uh, I think it's, it's beautiful because the possibilities are endless for something such as small as. It's just a corridor. Uh, let's talk why we build it. I think
[00:03:31] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think.
[00:03:31] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And then maybe even more important widen then how we build it. For me, myself.
[00:03:37] Wojciech Wegrzynski: You know, when you look into statistics, when you look into. The main causes of death in fires. Obviously the smoke inhalation always pops up as the, as the number one We. Observe. deadly fires in residential buildings in which the smoke spreads through evacuation pathways. Uh, has threatened people [00:04:00] outside of the, compartment of origin, of the fires. And for me, these are very.
[00:04:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Difficult fights, dangerous fires. I mean, if I set the fire in my own.
[00:04:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: If I'm in my own living room, I guess I can live with that. But if my neighbor does and I'm in
[00:04:13] Wojciech Wegrzynski: danger, this is a pretty bad. Station for myself. So definitely I feel there is a need to.
[00:04:20] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Understand how smoke in the horizontal.
[00:04:23] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Evacuation roads travel. What's happening with
[00:04:26] Wojciech Wegrzynski: it. And how can we extract it? What. Can we do with it? For you, what was the rationale when you propose to the, this research? What's what's in your mind when you've started pursuing this project.
[00:04:40] Grzegorz Krajewski: As you remember.
[00:04:40] Grzegorz Krajewski: we are, involved in many commissioning testing in residential buildings, in, hotel building some kind of, , public arenas. And there were a lot of corridors.
[00:04:49] Grzegorz Krajewski: The problem is corridor is dead.
[00:04:51] Grzegorz Krajewski: It's dramatically small space. So when you've got a fire, The smoke.
[00:04:55] Grzegorz Krajewski: Jay is spreading so quickly along the corridor.
[00:04:59] Grzegorz Krajewski: That's the time for [00:05:00] evacuation and,
[00:05:00] Grzegorz Krajewski: to, for, firefighters. Um, is going to be, to be very sure. So I think that was the main reason why I decided to take care about the topic. And the second part was the cooperation with the
[00:05:13] Grzegorz Krajewski: pressure differential system.
[00:05:14] Grzegorz Krajewski: So, so I found it think it was the main
[00:05:17] Grzegorz Krajewski: reason I sent it to is connected with my muster science.
[00:05:20] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah, that's cool. I think the interaction between
[00:05:23] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Is something we very, very rarely.
[00:05:25] Wojciech Wegrzynski: understand well,
[00:05:27] Wojciech Wegrzynski: if we, even the revenue model that we even readily take that into account. When we design smoke control systems in our buildings and. Certainly. I remember that the time when we were
[00:05:38] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And We had this very, very powerful pressurization systems in the corridors. in the staircases that connected to corridors, we were doing called smoke tests in compartments. Next to that corridor. We had this very beautiful smoke layer.
[00:05:52] Wojciech Wegrzynski: A good extraction system. Everything was working as it was supposed to. And then bam, someone opens the door, high velocity flow. [00:06:00] It gets into the corridor and suddenly don't have a layer everything's mixed around. And I mean, the smoke control was designed as it should. The PDs was designed as it should. It's just, they were not designed
[00:06:12] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It's uh, I think there, the observation is, is very spot
[00:06:16] Grzegorz Krajewski: The same thing is happening.
[00:06:17] Grzegorz Krajewski: on every, every construction workers. mine is working properly, but no money is looking.
[00:06:21] Grzegorz Krajewski: on that in the overall project. Yes.
[00:06:23] Grzegorz Krajewski: So, so it works like That last time we were in an office building and it was the same situation. So
[00:06:28] Grzegorz Krajewski: that's the reason why we are taking care about the topic What we are going to test and what we are going to. From these tests.
[00:06:37] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And, in, in the sports arenas.
[00:06:39] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The corridors are huge. They can accommodate a lot of smoke, but you've mentioned. In residential buildings. They're like tiny,
[00:06:44] Grzegorz Krajewski: Tiny small. So-so the time for, to fulfill with the smoke is very, very short.
[00:06:49] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Exactly. for, for me also, when we started doing that, because a significant aspect of this. After this project is to be able to simulate different scenarios.
[00:06:59] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And I don't [00:07:00] only mean the scenario of operation of the smoke ventilation system. Like the world exhaust capacity we have or where the inlets are located, but you know, the whole.
[00:07:09] Wojciech Wegrzynski: the whole idea of what happens when the fire starts. I remember what
[00:07:14] Wojciech Wegrzynski: that was many, many years ago when I was doing. My master thesis, I was doing a corridor.
[00:07:19] Wojciech Wegrzynski: In that disease is it's quite funny because at that point I had. Really really low amount of knowledge on smoke control systems because it's, it was not something I would, uh, actively pursue during my studies. I was more interested in detection and suppression.
[00:07:35] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Smoke control is not, not in the focal point back then, which is funny essay. Um, that was smoke control engineer. and. my master thesis, I thought, okay. I'll need to show some simulations. I wanted to, to show the, the modern tools of fire safety engineering.
[00:07:47] Wojciech Wegrzynski: how they play together. And I was doing a simulation of.
[00:07:50] Wojciech Wegrzynski: a fire in a compartment next to a 30 meter corridor. Surprise surprise the same way we just built. Uh, what the Kings students and, Yeah. And in, in that simulations,
[00:07:59] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It's just, [00:08:00] you know, started the fire in the compartment. I opened the door to the corridor. The smoke flows to the corridor and.
[00:08:06] Wojciech Wegrzynski: There's nothing I can tell you that It just feels my corridor like completely. I have like one minute of evacuation time. There's no, there's literally no, nothing I can do about it.
[00:08:15] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I increase the smoke system capacity. Doesn't
[00:08:18] Wojciech Wegrzynski: help. I put more in this doesn't really help. I then approached you at one of the senior colleagues.
[00:08:23] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I showed them my CFD and say,
[00:08:25] Wojciech Wegrzynski: You see, I have a problem. It doesn't work. And he's like, yeah, obviously it doesn't work. You didn't shut the door. And I'm like, oh, That's how you do that. I found it really Grazie that.
[00:08:36] Wojciech Wegrzynski: the scenario of the system in this case, shutting the door after some time was the only way I could prove the system is working. And I don't think I proved the system is work. I proved. That by shutting the door. I don't have smoke on my corridor anymore. And the more I've worked with this solutions.
[00:08:54] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The the more I observed.
[00:08:56] Wojciech Wegrzynski: In a way it is reality of the design.
[00:08:58] Grzegorz Krajewski: And this is exactly that what [00:09:00] you said yesterday
[00:09:00] Grzegorz Krajewski: during her presentation.
[00:09:02] Grzegorz Krajewski: If you, you just have to be a smart, smart engineer. Yes. You are closing the door and see your system is working properly.
[00:09:08] Grzegorz Krajewski: because you don't have.
[00:09:09] Grzegorz Krajewski: any source of smoking. And heat
[00:09:11] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And, As we were starting the project as we were building our knowledge. on the context of the systems that we want to investigate. I guess we very quickly realized that this scenario on how you model, how you test, how you validate your solution. Is very.
[00:09:30] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Conscious specific, like in Poland, we do it in a certain
[00:09:33] Wojciech Wegrzynski: In the UK, they do it in a completely different way in Germany. They do it in a different way. In many of these cases, you either have a prescribed.
[00:09:40] Wojciech Wegrzynski: He released rates, smoke, suit, yield, and other parameters of your fire that you want to model. And based on these parameters, you have some acceptance criteria to which you refer, and then you say your system works. In the UK. I believe they, they had this funny scenarios where they shut the doors and open the doors.
[00:09:59] Grzegorz Krajewski: Right. [00:10:00] In that point, we are very thankful to track on the
[00:10:02] Grzegorz Krajewski: Wallace who explain us how the.
[00:10:06] Grzegorz Krajewski: UK British tonight are
[00:10:07] Grzegorz Krajewski: working with opening and closing the
[00:10:09] Grzegorz Krajewski: doors on
[00:10:10] Grzegorz Krajewski: their timeline.
[00:10:11] Grzegorz Krajewski: But Coming back to your
[00:10:12] Grzegorz Krajewski: sentence, which you said. There is a lack of information about that. What is happening in a full-scale corridor? Yes. At the beginning of the project, we're thinking of making
[00:10:24] Grzegorz Krajewski: some kind of a scale model. . But to. When we started to read the literature, the lack of information was so big. There is a one big black hole about in that topic. So the last tests were made, I think, 20 years ago or more. So that's why we decided to extend the project and to make the full scale corridor.
[00:10:44] Grzegorz Krajewski: And that's what we have now, after the first test, the results Totally different than, than we expected at the
[00:10:51] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah,
[00:10:51] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think it was a good idea too, to make it full-scale. I mean, it's going to be easier to publish and all right.
[00:10:57] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Maybe it makes us, it makes us. Our work as [00:11:00] scientists. So much easier when you have full scaling, then I'll have justified the scaling factors.
[00:11:03] Wojciech Wegrzynski: But outside of that, I think it is important to. Establishing new zero. I call it the new north star, you S we have to rely on tricks on scenarios in. Estimating. Smoke control performance. And I'm not saying we design systems that are bad. That's not necessarily the case. I'm just saying. We designed them in the stupid way where we have no idea what the performance is. We have established some sort of.
[00:11:32] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Tests of.
[00:11:33] Wojciech Wegrzynski: validation method. It's extremely artificial and that, Only informs you of how the system ranks again, this, the test, but it does not inform you on what safety does it provide in a building. And if you are all into ASET/RSET calculations, if you're all into just fulfilling the standard needs.
[00:11:55] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I guess you can leave with that. If, these standard, if this level of [00:12:00] safety. This implicit. Level of safety hidden within these assumptions. If that's what you aim for. Yeah. Cool. You can design it like that. But if you truly want to understand. How your system What do you gain by putting the system?
[00:12:14] Wojciech Wegrzynski: How the system will behave. Your fire scenario is slightly different. You have no way to know that today with the current models and we don't have good. Experimental proof on how these things work.
[00:12:27] Grzegorz Krajewski: This is the point, what you
[00:12:28] Grzegorz Krajewski: said. Yes. It's time for effort.
[00:12:31] Grzegorz Krajewski: To come back To the
[00:12:32] Grzegorz Krajewski: fundamentals of the small problem is just, just want to pick out. Compartment.
[00:12:37] Grzegorz Krajewski: Adjustment to the corridor. Very simple.
[00:12:40] Grzegorz Krajewski: It's it looks like a very simple topic. But. as we can see here.
[00:12:44] Grzegorz Krajewski: She said yes. Because so many variables. which we have to, predict. We have to check how, how system is going to work. We have to, verify and check the environmental conditions in the corridor, which we still accept. We probably [00:13:00] will never have got the perfect conditions. But we have to find the moment when that conditions are acceptable for us.
[00:13:06] Grzegorz Krajewski: And for people
[00:13:07] Grzegorz Krajewski: who are, evacuating. during
[00:13:09] Wojciech Wegrzynski: So, , okay. We have the facility now We, we hope to do this restart to find the new north star of smoke control in corridors.
[00:13:18] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Give you a benchmark against a, the solutions can be tested
[00:13:22] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And we truly hope to achieve that. It's a, ambitious, ambitious goal. Now let's talk about the facility. I mean, yesterday during my talk, there was already a lot of questions. Ask about technical details, how the facility.
[00:13:35] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Whereas, how does it operate? How does it look like? Um, unfortunately I don't see the pictures, but it does exist. It's it's beautiful. I, we love it. Anyway. Let's let's talk a little about technicalities of what we have built. So you've said it's a 30 meter long corridor, but that doesn't give her the whole story.
[00:13:53] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I stir. Are things. Connected to that. Like first, the compartments.
[00:13:57] Grzegorz Krajewski: as what you said, this. Cory [00:14:00] door and there are free compartments. Uh, adjustment to that corridor. Each one is free by four meters. floor
[00:14:06] Grzegorz Krajewski: Aria and hide three meters. So we can.
[00:14:10] Grzegorz Krajewski: we have got a huge flexibility of locating
[00:14:12] Grzegorz Krajewski: the fire source. We can look at it in the middle or at the beginning or at the end of the corridor.
[00:14:18] Grzegorz Krajewski: so.
[00:14:18] Grzegorz Krajewski: As you can see, we've got just three variables at the beginning. Yes, we can locate the fire inside the corridor. In any position? Where we want.
[00:14:28] Grzegorz Krajewski: Additionally, this is the only the geometry Galleria and Another font is he trees rate of the fires.
[00:14:34] Grzegorz Krajewski: So I think we can multiple every, every possible fire source. We don't have any limitations. So we can make.
[00:14:43] Grzegorz Krajewski: performance test. Of fire ventilation from the smallest fires to the biggest fires.
[00:14:48] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Oh, I wouldn't be so open the mode, like a limited, Because, I mean, there's a certain point.
[00:14:53] Wojciech Wegrzynski: which is the facility will be destroyed.
[00:14:55] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And actually we've, we, We have thought about that.
[00:14:58] Wojciech Wegrzynski: and it's, built from [00:15:00] Easily fixable materials, almost disposable material. So if we damage it, it's very, very easy to fix it.
[00:15:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: There's the key fallen gravity Of the, of the facility, , but we are using propane burners with, uh, Heat release rate. We, we do steer that's true.
[00:15:17] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Mass flow inlet of propane into the burner. We
[00:15:20] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Put multiple burners in
[00:15:22] Wojciech Wegrzynski: the facility. So we also influence somehow the kit release rate per unit area. And, uh, because of that, we really have almost unlimited possibilities to, to test any fires and it's all computer controlled. Right.
[00:15:36] Grzegorz Krajewski: Yeah,
[00:15:36] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We
[00:15:37] Grzegorz Krajewski: We can define any.
[00:15:38] Grzegorz Krajewski: And a fire curve, which we want so-so the
[00:15:40] Grzegorz Krajewski: fire heat release rate can change in time.
[00:15:42] Grzegorz Krajewski: As we, as we define it. So.
[00:15:45] Grzegorz Krajewski: and, At that moment, we have got four burners.
[00:15:47] Grzegorz Krajewski: So we can even make fire.
[00:15:49] Grzegorz Krajewski: to up to two megawatts, three megawatts. We.
[00:15:52] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think three megawatts.
[00:15:53] Wojciech Wegrzynski: is even more than ventilation controlled for, for the compartments.
[00:15:56] Grzegorz Krajewski: but it will destroy the corridor.
[00:15:58] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I'm a little price to [00:16:00] pay for knowledge.
[00:16:01] Wojciech Wegrzynski: this is fire source. Okay. That's a, that's a.
[00:16:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: important aspect now smoke control systems, because I mean, you can build a building. A corridor is not
[00:16:11] Wojciech Wegrzynski: difficult or impressive on its own. I think I would say the 20% of the struggle with the project was with building the
[00:16:20] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And the rest was waste with the smoke control system suit. So we equipped
[00:16:24] Wojciech Wegrzynski: it with almost anything you can find on the market. Like it
[00:16:28] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Entangled Why
[00:16:29] Wojciech Wegrzynski: ducks and of different smoke control?
[00:16:32] Grzegorz Krajewski: our only walls and sitting on the floor. . but the whole magic of the project was the, equipment. Yes. So we.
[00:16:41] Grzegorz Krajewski: looked, what kind of systems we have tested before.
[00:16:44] Grzegorz Krajewski: Uh, on that facility, I think we can perform. any test which we can imagine on a market. Yes. So for example, transversal ventilation system. Semi transversal ventilation system, long continuous ventilation system. we can, additionally, we can. [00:17:00] Change the way, how we supply or exhaust the air from the corridor, it can be natural.
[00:17:06] Grzegorz Krajewski: supply. So. There are unlimited possibilities, which we can make on that facility.
[00:17:13] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And that there was a point too, to have ability to retest. Uh, whatever solutions are used in the world. And, It's obviously all computer controlled, just like the burner. So. With the click of a mouse, you can. Turn the longitudinal system into transversal system and change the capacities and stuff like that.
[00:17:29] Grzegorz Krajewski: And this is the second advantage of that. project. Is that, that we can control everything. And everything is registered only in one file. So it's synchronized. So you can see the temperatures.
[00:17:42] Grzegorz Krajewski: and the level on the edge of the ventilators while working, we did numbers are open. What was the gas flow in on the regulators? So we have. I've got everything in one file
[00:17:53] Grzegorz Krajewski: Synchronized. So it's very easy to. repeat every test with the same, input parameters.
[00:17:59] Wojciech Wegrzynski: So I [00:18:00] hope in your head to your building.
[00:18:01] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Image of this magnificent facility, probably
[00:18:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: the image you build is more beautiful than that. Facility itself. It is.
[00:18:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It is really impressive on what can be done in here.
[00:18:11] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And now in important broad custom message to any one of you listening. If, if you are intrigued with what we have.
[00:18:20] Wojciech Wegrzynski: If you like what we have, and you have an idea on how to use it to enhance your own research, like.
[00:18:28] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Please, please just contact us. I mean, we're, , We are fueled by collaboration. We believe in collaborative nature of science.
[00:18:33] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I don't like individualism in science. I like collaborations. So if you have a better idea on how to use it than us, Please let us know.
[00:18:40] Wojciech Wegrzynski: and we'll, we'll try to do it. The beauty of the facility is that.
[00:18:44] Wojciech Wegrzynski: it took three years to build, but now to set up an experiment, it's like few hours in one day. Literally in the first day of burning. It was amazing. We have done how many, these are three, four tests.
[00:18:58] Grzegorz Krajewski: Four tests. Yes. We bought, we, we [00:19:00] have been changing many times the ventilation system. So. During Quantus you are making 20 tests.
[00:19:05] Wojciech Wegrzynski: So this is one day of testing. I think.
[00:19:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think it's a first statement.
[00:19:10] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think we've generated more useful results for validating CFD than I've seen in the literature on this of the subject.
[00:19:18] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Through my entire career. And there was just one day of test. So.
[00:19:21] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The possibilities
[00:19:22] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Are endless and you're all invited to, to participate. We want this to be a living facility. We want this to be yielding. Useful results for, for science, for everyone.
[00:19:31] Grzegorz Krajewski: Now we have the.
[00:19:32] Grzegorz Krajewski: boom, the base. Yes. So we can extend it in every possible way. So any ideas. Just to feel welcome to a contact with.
[00:19:40] Grzegorz Krajewski: We've asked. so we will try to
[00:19:42] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And now, As I mentioned, the experimental facilities is just one piece of the puzzle. The second piece is the digital twin, which is a fancy way to call. Uh, let's see if this simulations for the facility. And here, we approached the project the same way as the corridor. We wanted to be [00:20:00] modular.
[00:20:01] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We wanted to be a parametric. We wanted to be.
[00:20:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Like, able , to verify whatever we need. And.
[00:20:07] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Anyone who's working with CV models.
[00:20:10] Wojciech Wegrzynski: You probably realize how painful it is to set
[00:20:11] Wojciech Wegrzynski: see if the Moodle and it's even more painful to change something like you want to move your extraction point by one meter. To your left and then eventually it gets into middle of two meshes of LDS. So you have to split
[00:20:25] Wojciech Wegrzynski: There's so many annoying things that can happen when you change.
[00:20:29] Wojciech Wegrzynski: a parameter in your CFD. And that will, because we are talking about. Literally hundreds of barometers, literally.
[00:20:35] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Thousands of possible scenarios to be tested. There's no way you can program that by hand.
[00:20:41] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It would be too much.
[00:20:42] Wojciech Wegrzynski: So we've approached this in a different way. Some of those similar to, to how we did our top acquisition that I've shown in the past.
[00:20:48] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We have taken, snippets off of the us code to describe parts of the model.
[00:20:53] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Like I have a snippet of the code that.
[00:20:54] Wojciech Wegrzynski: describes the corridor and the compartments. There's a snippet of the code that describes the ventilation [00:21:00] systems, fire devices using the cord. And we're like, every, everything is split into separate snippet.
[00:21:05] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Files. And then I have, we have a parametric scripts.
[00:21:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: that whenever they are fueled with the list of variables to be investigated, They take the the snippets. That are needed. To, to build this particular case file and they just With the values of That we have defined too.
[00:21:23] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It's a model. I. I mean after two
[00:21:26] Wojciech Wegrzynski: , after it works, I. Just give it lists. Just, I want to have Like FDS simulations of. Uh, firing room number Number two number three. One megawatt two megawatt, three megawatts. I want a smoke. Extraction. Point three points, five points. We had the capacity
[00:21:42] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Oh, 2, 5, 10 meters per second. Let's hear.
[00:21:46] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And then I just present her and It's me hundreds or thousands of 50. Yes files to describe. The recombination of these variables. Then it automatically sends it Our HPC cluster. And they.
[00:21:57] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And then.
[00:21:58] Wojciech Wegrzynski: a month later we come back. [00:22:00]
[00:22:00] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We pick up the results.
[00:22:01] Wojciech Wegrzynski: there's there are. Our scripts that automatically.
[00:22:03] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The process that.
[00:22:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: and w we're we're done. I think it's super powerful and especially. That we consider these two things. As. Two parts of one exact thing. Like. You don't see everything from the Experis. Measurements, but if you have validated CFD that. You trust? You can make an experiment. And then use the CFD. To understand more
[00:22:28] Grzegorz Krajewski: especially what you did
[00:22:30] Grzegorz Krajewski: We designed that fascinating. And before. We build it and. Heads. The idea how it is going to work. Eh, we did plenty of CFD calculations.
[00:22:41] Grzegorz Krajewski: At the beginning, it was about 700.
[00:22:43] Grzegorz Krajewski: CFD calculations.
[00:22:45] Grzegorz Krajewski: To predict what is going to happen during the tests?
[00:22:49] Grzegorz Krajewski: And it was our input data to design that facility. .
[00:22:53] Grzegorz Krajewski: and to find out all you want from. the experimental part
[00:22:58] Grzegorz Krajewski: Of the topic.
[00:22:59] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah. [00:23:00]
[00:23:00] Wojciech Wegrzynski: so it's really both things fuel.
[00:23:02] Wojciech Wegrzynski: on each other.
[00:23:03] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Both things are very interconnected.
[00:23:05] Wojciech Wegrzynski: and definitely experiments are the number one thing we want to do. We want to find experimental
[00:23:11] Wojciech Wegrzynski: proof for various smoke control and performance in corridors. We want to have.
[00:23:15] Wojciech Wegrzynski: experimental
[00:23:16] Wojciech Wegrzynski: proof on what really happens in the corridors.
[00:23:18] Wojciech Wegrzynski: That's the number one
[00:23:20] Wojciech Wegrzynski: But thanks to digital twin, we can easily enhance that
[00:23:24] Wojciech Wegrzynski: knowledge with with much more data points.
[00:23:27] Wojciech Wegrzynski: That.
[00:23:27] Wojciech Wegrzynski: we would not be able to find otherwise.
[00:23:29] Grzegorz Krajewski: And we knew how to design it and now
[00:23:31] Grzegorz Krajewski: we
[00:23:31] Grzegorz Krajewski: can validate it,
[00:23:33] Grzegorz Krajewski: having the final data from, from the experiment.
[00:23:36] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Oh Yeah, that's that's cool.
[00:23:37] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Let's talk about validation. Good idea.
[00:23:40] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We have performance as mentioned so far, 13 experiments. I
[00:23:44] Grzegorz Krajewski: 14 experiments, but with many variables,
[00:23:46] Grzegorz Krajewski: Between.
[00:23:47] Grzegorz Krajewski: in each experiment,
[00:23:49] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yes.
[00:23:49] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Just to take us to an experiment like.
[00:23:52] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Let let let's talk about the ones with variable. He truly straights. What are we changing? How do we do that?
[00:23:56] Grzegorz Krajewski: at the beginning. increment. very simple test to.
[00:23:58] Grzegorz Krajewski: just a [00:24:00] constant
[00:24:00] Grzegorz Krajewski: It treats rates
[00:24:02] Grzegorz Krajewski: 100 kilowatts per one hour, just to check what is going.
[00:24:05] Grzegorz Krajewski: on with our.
[00:24:06] Grzegorz Krajewski: a facility. is Because we are not able to
[00:24:08] Grzegorz Krajewski: predict. If it We'll stay
[00:24:10] Grzegorz Krajewski: alive after one test. So.
[00:24:13] Grzegorz Krajewski: Until now?
[00:24:14] Grzegorz Krajewski: yes.
[00:24:15] Grzegorz Krajewski: So first we started from the steady state fires lasting one hour, half an hour until we have. got. steady state conditions.
[00:24:23] Grzegorz Krajewski: And
[00:24:23] Grzegorz Krajewski: later we started to change.
[00:24:26] Grzegorz Krajewski: He trees red during the tests. after every five minutes.
[00:24:30] Grzegorz Krajewski: we were increasing the Patrice rate.
[00:24:33] Grzegorz Krajewski: starting from
[00:24:33] Grzegorz Krajewski: 50. Kilowatts
[00:24:35] Grzegorz Krajewski: up to 500 kilowatts.
[00:24:37] Grzegorz Krajewski: and then decrease down, just looking what is happening with. The temperatures. along the corridor.
[00:24:42] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah.
[00:24:42] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It's on the plus it looks like.
[00:24:44] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Uh, pyramid with the steps that, it's gross.
[00:24:47] Wojciech Wegrzynski: then stays stable for like five minutes and grows again and again, and
[00:24:51] Grzegorz Krajewski: again. .
[00:24:52] Wojciech Wegrzynski: But
[00:24:52] Grzegorz Krajewski: a
[00:24:52] Wojciech Wegrzynski: yeah, you control.
[00:24:53] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah.
[00:24:54] Wojciech Wegrzynski: but it's a really great too, because it generates you plenty of data to validate.
[00:24:59] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And obviously [00:25:00] for this experiments, we have performed.
[00:25:02] Wojciech Wegrzynski: If deal with MDs.
[00:25:03] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Taking just the basic settings of the model, like really.
[00:25:06] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Not playing with anything.
[00:25:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Not touching any more advanced settings of the solver.
[00:25:12] Wojciech Wegrzynski: For the smaller
[00:25:13] Wojciech Wegrzynski: fires, we got almost ideal match between the simulations and experiments.
[00:25:17] Grzegorz Krajewski: experiments.
[00:25:18] Wojciech Wegrzynski: For the more complicated cases, especially this style
[00:25:21] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Grow the fires. we've have found some discrepancies.
[00:25:24] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The temperatures in the experiments.
[00:25:27] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Are approximately 50 degrees.
[00:25:29] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Higher than the CFD. Which I mean it's okay. Ish for a first shot, but we're, we're not very happy with it. . we hope to him.
[00:25:37] Wojciech Wegrzynski: prove it, but there's like, we already have good ideas on where to look for, for solutions to that. So overall, over the cause of this 13 simulations. We already have something like if they did save the model, Yeah.
[00:25:48] Grzegorz Krajewski: but
[00:25:48] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We have a lot of doubts yes. , especially when you are
[00:25:51] Grzegorz Krajewski: making a full-scale experiement. .
[00:25:52] Grzegorz Krajewski: There
[00:25:53] Wojciech Wegrzynski: are many, many questions. If your, history's rate of fire is.
[00:25:57] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Exactly. That's what you predict at the [00:26:00] beginning.
[00:26:00] Grzegorz Krajewski: Cause
[00:26:00] Wojciech Wegrzynski: That's why we are going to make another test in the wrong corner.
[00:26:03] Grzegorz Krajewski: To
[00:26:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: verify our This rate of the burner. For the career values. Yeah, we, we used to prop in burners with mass flow controllers.
[00:26:12] Wojciech Wegrzynski: That lowest to set any value of propane flow.
[00:26:15] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Into the burner. And
[00:26:16] Wojciech Wegrzynski: with previous experience in open air measurements of these burners, we were quite happy with.
[00:26:22] Wojciech Wegrzynski: How they work, but now as they are in the confined space of the corridor,
[00:26:26] Wojciech Wegrzynski: there are some doubts how this can influence the heat release rate, Actually,
[00:26:30] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Okay. And. And.
[00:26:31] Wojciech Wegrzynski: now Let's move into the future. How do we see the use of this facility?
[00:26:35] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Like we finished the stage one building starting. We're in the.
[00:26:40] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Final phases of validation of the CFDs.
[00:26:43] Wojciech Wegrzynski: the facility is up and running. The experiments are fairly easy to set up. Of course there are not.
[00:26:47] Wojciech Wegrzynski: without with, without the problems, but everything's manageable. Everything's working. As we expected it to work. Now, where are we going with Jewish?
[00:26:57] Grzegorz Krajewski: At this moment, I think we are planning to [00:27:00] extend a lot
[00:27:00] Grzegorz Krajewski: amount of term of couples.
[00:27:01] Grzegorz Krajewski: to have a more dense greet , of points when we measured the temperature.
[00:27:07] Grzegorz Krajewski: We are going
[00:27:08] Grzegorz Krajewski: to add additional thermocouples trees. We are going to add. At the floor and in the ceiling. And At the end of September, we will have, the.
[00:27:17] Grzegorz Krajewski: possibility to measure the intensity
[00:27:19] Grzegorz Krajewski: of radiation.
[00:27:21] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah, I'm also looking into.
[00:27:22] Wojciech Wegrzynski: putting oxygen and measurements into the corridor. to have a better comparison with the CFD. And we've not mentioned that, but we also are measuring the velocities in the smoke layer. In the, in the ceiling jet, which also will be To compare the data we have with, uh, with the CFD, but not only with, with also with sewn models, with outbursts correlations, with the corridor ceiling jet models.
[00:27:45] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Opens quite a lot of possibilities there.
[00:27:48] Grzegorz Krajewski: And after we finished our plan of.
[00:27:50] Grzegorz Krajewski: making The combination of five ventilation.
[00:27:53] Grzegorz Krajewski: when we have got Heat and smoke in the middle of corridor. We are just relocated the burner[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] Grzegorz Krajewski: And we will start the , real tests of five ventilation system. When we have got the fire Compartment.
[00:28:07] Wojciech Wegrzynski: including.
[00:28:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Uh, shutting the doors at different posts, points of experiment, opening them. Opening the windows in the compartments, changing the size of the Many many variables to play. Right.
[00:28:16] Grzegorz Krajewski: Exactly like that.
[00:28:18] Grzegorz Krajewski: and probably.
[00:28:19] Grzegorz Krajewski: In the end of this year, we'll have sprinkler systems. So we'll try to make some preliminary tests of how a smoke layer and how temperature field is changing Quinn. Sprinkler system is running.
[00:28:34] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We also have
[00:28:35] Grzegorz Krajewski: Walter Meese 10
[00:28:36] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Fantastic.
[00:28:37] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Fantastic. I'm looking, I'm looking forward to that. And, How do you see the facility in what? One to three years.
[00:28:43] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Like
[00:28:44] Wojciech Wegrzynski: well, we're, hopefully we won't burn
[00:28:47] Wojciech Wegrzynski: That's like number one thing, but hopefully we can use for something good. What was the craziest piece of research you would like to do on land?
[00:28:54] Grzegorz Krajewski: I think we will try to make a big fire as possible. Yes. Especially that we are making the [00:29:00] commissioning tests
[00:29:01] Grzegorz Krajewski: Exactly. I don't know what is the limit? Of five ventilation system. to make the proof that it works properly.
[00:29:08] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah.
[00:29:08] Grzegorz Krajewski: we combine everything together, a sprinkler system, Inflation system detection system. We will try to make the fire scenarios.
[00:29:15] Grzegorz Krajewski: As flexible as
[00:29:16] Grzegorz Krajewski: possible is because we are going to.
[00:29:18] Grzegorz Krajewski: Make some, detection system, which will decide which
[00:29:22] Grzegorz Krajewski: dam we did not post. It should be open, which samples. Dumpers should be So we are going to do way to some kind of an intelligence system.
[00:29:30] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I'm also looking forward.
[00:29:32] Wojciech Wegrzynski: To some more in middle next year when we will install the pressurization systems next to the
[00:29:37] Wojciech Wegrzynski: corridor. So we can check the influence on how a quick stream of air changes. The.
[00:29:44] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Buoyancy of the smoke later in the corridor.
[00:29:46] Wojciech Wegrzynski: How do these systems work together? I think there is so much to uncover there.
[00:29:52] Wojciech Wegrzynski: That can influence both the ways, how we design the smoke control but also.
[00:29:56] Wojciech Wegrzynski: the pressurization
[00:29:57] Grzegorz Krajewski: And the next problem, which we are going to to [00:30:00] check is that because
[00:30:02] Grzegorz Krajewski: involved in, wind engineering. So, uh,
[00:30:05] Grzegorz Krajewski: As soon there are windows in rooms, there are , glass parts of the, of the facets, which can just break down. So we are going to check what will happen.
[00:30:14] Grzegorz Krajewski: If you have got some influence of the wind, which is outside of the corridor.
[00:30:19] Grzegorz Krajewski: And how it influence on the fire ventilation systems.
[00:30:22] Grzegorz Krajewski: So, but.
[00:30:22] Grzegorz Krajewski: it's the topic for next year? I think
[00:30:24] Wojciech Wegrzynski: so.
[00:30:24] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think you've already seen some of that accidentally in the experiment. Six.
[00:30:28] Wojciech Wegrzynski: where you had strong winds acting on your natural openings in the.
[00:30:31] Wojciech Wegrzynski: In the corridor And the whole smoke lady was fluctuating. We have this
[00:30:35] Wojciech Wegrzynski: crazy measurements.
[00:30:36] Grzegorz Krajewski: Yeah, we have got the big bumping of Temperature. So.
[00:30:38] Grzegorz Krajewski: do this test. It's not.
[00:30:40] Grzegorz Krajewski: easy to validate, but it happened.
[00:30:42] Grzegorz Krajewski: He has because.
[00:30:43] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I like it. I actually like it because when you pulled the temperature over the FDS simulation,
[00:30:48] Wojciech Wegrzynski: you see the average is matching that just in the real world. cases, the temperatures were going up down 50 degrees when the wind was blowing on the facility and have
[00:30:59] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It's just perfect [00:31:00] uniform conditions.
[00:31:01] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It doesn't mean it's useless. I think it's interesting. And.
[00:31:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: what you said taking wind into account when designing corridors wind-driven fires have been known for ages for decades that. They are challenged.
[00:31:13] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Devastating. They're deadly.
[00:31:15] Wojciech Wegrzynski: So absolutely. That's a, that's a, something to And do you know Understanding. To what extent wind actually influences the performance of mechanical smoke ventilation. That's something. I don't think we have a good answer yet.
[00:31:28] Grzegorz Krajewski: We don't have an answer but as you remember, we were making.
[00:31:32] Grzegorz Krajewski: A lot of commissioning testing, high-rise building where there was a facade with open windows. And if there was a wind outside , of the building. the five ventilation system didn't work exactly as it was designed. And E.
[00:31:43] Grzegorz Krajewski: as it was predicted by the. The designer.
[00:31:45] Grzegorz Krajewski: So that's
[00:31:46] Grzegorz Krajewski: what we would like to test in next year.
[00:31:49] Wojciech Wegrzynski: I think, you know, the coolest thing is that. We have this. , body of experience, we have this.
[00:31:55] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The article, Uh, examples or anecdotical proofs of the [00:32:00] different planes.
[00:32:01] Wojciech Wegrzynski: You know, you've seen that happen once in a high rise building
[00:32:05] Wojciech Wegrzynski: during commissioning. Well, We don't really have a work worked out.
[00:32:09] Wojciech Wegrzynski: scientifical proof of how it works. We don't have an understanding why.
[00:32:13] Wojciech Wegrzynski: It was like that. And now.
[00:32:15] Wojciech Wegrzynski: we have a full-scale experimental facility that's armed up
[00:32:19] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Measurement systems. That's our top. Arms up with all the automation that we need.
[00:32:24] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Finally, we can build evidence-based fire science.
[00:32:28] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And I think that makes me the most excited about this project.
[00:32:31] Grzegorz Krajewski: Verify what will happen?
[00:32:33] Grzegorz Krajewski: Depending on the, on direction of the Winchester. The wind speeds.
[00:32:37] Grzegorz Krajewski: The debt, what we have find out.
[00:32:40] Grzegorz Krajewski: during the commissioning tests. Then now we try to make it a little bit toward. And to research. And I think it will give us an answer how we should. Design that kind of system to make it fully safety for people.
[00:32:54] Wojciech Wegrzynski: We need to cut this up. We're going down. I guess we can talk about this possibilities for ages. It's [00:33:00] so exciting.
[00:33:01] Wojciech Wegrzynski: you can imagine our state of mind. We've been building this for three
[00:33:05] Wojciech Wegrzynski: In secrecy.
[00:33:06] Wojciech Wegrzynski: we've. been designing this we've been pouring our hearts and, tears. Into into, into building these, there was a lot of pain, including physical pain. There was a lot of work, including heavy physical work.
[00:33:18] Wojciech Wegrzynski: But it looks like it was all worth it. And.
[00:33:21] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Now to set up an experiment few hours and experiments is set. And one day
[00:33:26] Wojciech Wegrzynski: later you have results that no one ever has seen in the fire science. This is the magic of full-scale. Experimental facilities. Uh, as we said, we are on a to Renee. The Europe. Because she was going to Vilnius for the Baltic fire.
[00:33:41] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Uh,
[00:33:41] Grzegorz Krajewski: But starting from Monday, we are going to make another test. So
[00:33:45] Wojciech Wegrzynski: of course, of course.
[00:33:46] Wojciech Wegrzynski: but, Uh, as we are sharing this.
[00:33:48] Wojciech Wegrzynski: with the world, I'll try to drop some links in the show notes too. The current, presentations about the topic? Uh, I think they Materials will be published on YouTube at some point.
[00:33:59] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And there are definitely [00:34:00] available to anyone
[00:34:00] Wojciech Wegrzynski: that registered to the conference. So. thanks, Four four openly sharing that at some point I'll I'll drop the links. I'll make sure it's updated. Uh, you can learn more about the facility. And just, uh, follow us on Twitter. Follow us on, on research gate. You will be sure to find the newest materials related to this project.
[00:34:19] Grzegorz Krajewski: So, thank you very much and I hope it will be very useful for all of us all over the world.
[00:34:24] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Yeah, thanks guys.
[00:34:25] Wojciech Wegrzynski: , thanks for listening.
[00:34:26] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And that was a quick update on our newest. Research and Deaver.
[00:34:31] Wojciech Wegrzynski: The experimental.
[00:34:33] Wojciech Wegrzynski: facility. On small controlling corridors and its digital
[00:34:38] Wojciech Wegrzynski: Uh, thanks for being here with us in the 5 cent show.
[00:34:40] Wojciech Wegrzynski: And now we're going back to enjoy the conference
[00:34:44] Wojciech Wegrzynski: in beautiful Brno in Czech. It's fantastic.
[00:34:46] Wojciech Wegrzynski: happy to see so many.
[00:34:47] Wojciech Wegrzynski: familiar faces in here meet new people. So yeah, that's it for today's fireside show and see you back next Wednesday where we'll summarize the conference. Because there's many [00:35:00] CFD modeling and evacuation modeling updates.
[00:35:02] Wojciech Wegrzynski: that are absolutely worth to share.
[00:35:04] Wojciech Wegrzynski: with all of you. Thank you guys, spice and thanks jiggles.
[00:35:07] Grzegorz Krajewski: Thank you very much. Bye-bye.